Virtual Chicon 8 - Friday

Here are notes from panels and other observations from the second day of Chicon 8.  Excuse any misspelled names and book titles.  I enjoy that a partially virtual con allows for more participants from around the world who wouldn't have the time or money to attend in person.

9:30 am
Non-violent Revolution

Panelists:
Farah Mendlesohn
Valentin Ivanov
Vida Cruz-Borja, moderator (Phillipines)

Explore historical and fictional examples of non-violent, peaceful transfers of power that changed societeies and toppled corrupt governments.

 

Valentin was late because he was trying to find an internet connection. He is in a car. He was there for a bit but dropped out. Airmeet doesn’t seem as hardy at Zoom as far as platform support and low bandwidth. Valentin ended up emailing his thoughts. Captions are failing to render the book title and authors

(This is a topic I've seen before, but the discussion varies depending on the panelists.)
They started out by listing non-violent revolution

1986 Edsa revolution to overthrow Marcos
Portugal, fall of the fascist regime
India 1947
Hungrary 1956
Czech Republic.

There was some discussion of the definition of violence; physical act causing harm versus architect of a system that starves people.

 

How does one start a revolution and how do you keep it going?

Philippines; ousted Joseph Estrada. Impeachment trial; senators voted whether or not to look at evidence; very distressing. People started protesting. 2001. Marcos was prepared to shoot people. Protest was organzied with a cardinal. Organized via text messages.
Philippines also had election fraud to keep Marcos in power. So bad the Election committee walked out.

Often soldiers tend to not follow through with orders to be violent because the soldiers identify with the people who are protesting.

Protest in the 1960s worked only because the people in charge still could feel shame for oppressing people.

 

Many non-violent revolutions do end up resulting in violence.

Some books:

Left Hand of Darkness; non-violence is intrinsic to the local people.

Stainless Steel Rat by Harrison has an example of non-violent revolution

 

Resources from a librarian in the Chat (Yay! for librarians)

James Davis Nicoll has a list:https://www.tor.com/2019/08/26/sff-works-in-which-violence-is-not-the-solution/

Nonviolent Power and Revolutionary Change by Sharon Erickson Nepstadhttps://academic.oup.com/book/6577/chapter-abstract/150542640?redirectedFrom=fulltext

 

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12:30PM

Biology of Fantasy Creatures

Panelists:
Lauren Masterson, /AKA Alice Liddell, studied bioloday and botany; participating from her hotel room

Derek Kunsken, Masters in molecular biology. Writes fantasy, world builidng

Alma Alexander, Wirtes fantasy; Masters in molecular biology. (She is having tech problems and can’t hear the panelist)

Thiago Abrosio Lage, PhD is biotechnology (Brazil)

Dan Benson , mod., Wrote books about aliens;

This was an excellent panel. The moderator was prepared with prompts and the panelists were creative with their answers.

(Tech issues with Alma were never resolved. She couldn't hear the other panelists.  There seemed to be more issues in Airmeet than in Zoom.)

Our panelists will explore what happens when they apply real biology to fantasy creatures.

 

Where is the heart located on a centaur?

Derek and Thiago thinks they have two, two sets of lungs too. Lauren disagrees, she knows horse physiology.Discussion of blood pressure to extremities.

Why should we care at al about scientific accuracy in a fantasy?

Even fantasy universe needs rules. Gives authenticity.

Gives continuity to worldbuilding. Lauren even thinks about economics of mermaids and fishing industry.

How do you know when to stop worldbuilding?

Lauren writes an encyclopedia, but doesn’t share all of it directly with the reader.

Thiago – Most people don’t know how the real world works and still manage to live in it.

Internal coherence of the world.

Some people plan it all out ahead and some have the basic idea, but invent details as needed.

 

How to dragons breathe fire?

Thiago: Dragon would have a gland/bacteria that produces gas and makes a spark with its teeth.

Derek: Lysosomes make peroxide. With oil/fat. Electric organ (like eels) could provide a spark/energy for ignition. High oxygen liquid and flammable oit. Fire proof throat with silicates deposited on throat, or scales covering the throat.  Visualizing that in my mind was cool.

Lauren thinks the flammable gas would come from digestion. e.g. swamp gas. Separate tube for fire breathing. Audience comment; Bombardier beetle

 
Somehow the discussion got diverted to writing process.

The nature of mermaids? Fish, mammal?

Lauren; based on folklore; Mermaids are predators. Attack and eat humans They do not have nipples. No visible genitalia. No lungs. Absorb oxygen from air; gills.  Would still need hydration, so can't be out of the water for long.

Taxonomically; fish/manta

Derek: Mermaids would have their own species. Evolution in a magic world?

Tiago: Showed book that shows anatomy of mermaid., “The Resurrectionist”

Benson: Mermaids are amphibians; primates

Book?: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/39843424-love-of-the-sea

 

Audience Q&S

How big a wingspan would a griffon need to fly?

Derek: Is lion part fully boned, or has bird-like hollow bones. Hollow bones would break in a fight. Wingspan would vary.

Thiago: Perhaps griffon in not really large, just a lot of fur/feathers.

Lauren: flying pterasaur 9 feet tall, 30 foot wingspan; She agrees griffon would not be the size of a lion. Might griffons glide. Also discussed a time in Earth's history when oxygen content was higher.

Referred to Larry Niven's "The Smoke Ring" A gas ring around star where people lived in free fall.

If giants existed how would their bodies need to differ from humans in order not to sink into the earth?

Thiago; Compare humans to elephants. Giant would have a different metabolism and structure to hold the pressure of the organs.

Derek: Giants bones would have to be reinforced with magic to have human proportional. Otherwise muscular and squat profile.

Lauren: Look at Suaropods; Large heart to pump blood to extremities. Bones could be reinforced with other minerals instead of calcium

Contacts for panelists

https://almaalexander.org/

 

thiago.com

 

Lauren:  https://alicetheauthor.wordpress.com/

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6:30pm

The Hero Doesn’t Always Journey

Panelists:
Martha Wells
Valeries Valdes – author The Chilling Effect.
Walter Williams
James Kennedy – author – Order of Odd Fish. Runs film festival for kid filmmakers
Vannessa - moderator

 

What are stories that don’t have a hero’s journeys?

Martha Siren Queen by Nghi Vo

 Eiffelheim by Michael Flynn ;

Gormenghast books by Mervin Peake.

Legends and Lattes ( is the Hero’s Staying Put)

 

How has hero’s journey hurt or helped the genre?

Valerie: Hero's Journey is just one tool in the toolbox

(I like Valdes from previous cons, I need to read one of her books.)

James; most of the Golden Age was not Hero's Journey

Joselph Campbell was a sociologist. Hero's Journey was not meant to be writing advice.

 

Alternate storytelling structures.

 

Martha: doesn’t think about story structure when she writes

Valerie: Her sturcture is “save the cat”. Structure should follow your story.

Mention of “Wonderbook” by Jeff Vandermeer

Walter – His structure is theme based

James – Rank-Raglan mythotype; old order passing away. Rise and fall. King Arthur arc is like this.

American optimism doesn’t like the fall of a hero.

Walker; We keep coming back to HJ because its become a gateway drug into publishing.

Other narrative styles:

James: Longitudinal story; There is history before the story and the system continues after.

Thomas Legatti, The Red Tower.

 

Martha; Something happens and the character is just trying to survive.

Non-linear structure; back and forth in POVs.

Octavia Butler “Wild Seed – generational

The Fifth Season

Kiki’s Delivery Service

 

Walter: Perhaps there is a different journey for women.

Not the same at the Heroine’s journey.

Gail Carriger.

Hero’s journey is a specific single person path.

Heroine’s journey is the women reaches out to various people and they all collectively help her to succeed.

 

Examplees of hero taking a journey that is no HJ

The Garden at the Roof of the World

The Knight of Ghost and Shadows

The Innkeeper's Song

Kafka on the Shore

Cryptonomicon

A Song for Arbonne

 

So fun to listen to authors talk about storytelling.

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8:00

Destroying All the Things

Sean Mead (late addition, other panels had to drop out) He is moderator

Erica Satifka – How to Get to Apocalypse. She writes about dystopia and apocalypse.

 

Writing stories that wreck favorite locations.

HG Wells enjoyed destroying places he knew.

Is this just for cheap spectable or do these devastations reveal deeper fears or desires?

 

Why are they destroying landmarks?

Erica: a catharsis; obliterate and start over. Rediscover what life is about.

Rushmore, White House, (Indepence Day)

DC, New York centers of power.

National capital, major city.

LA and New York because it is important to enteratinment business.

Erica thinks aliens would go after infrstructure; power, fuel production, food.

Discssion of how an EMP would shutdown civilization.

 

Reference:

Infinite Detail, Time Maugham

Feed by Matthew Tobin Anderson - satire , YA dystopia.

Seveneves by Neal Stephenson, where the Moon blows up.

Lucifer’s Hammer by Niven and Pournelle

Three Body Problem, Liu Cixin; destruction on a massive scale.

The Windup Girl (Paolo Bacigalupi)

 

Destruction seems to focus on US landmarks.

SF publishing tends to be North AMerica and Euro centric.

 

Shanghai skyline is starting to be recognizable.

“Mars Attacks” was fairly world wide.

 

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8:30

Marth Wells reading

Read from “System Collapse “A Murderbot novel that will be released next year. (I can hardly wait.)